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948 discussions

CGI X Prolog interface
by FABIO AUGUSTO MENOCCI CAPPABIANCO 30 May '02

30 May '02

Hallo, my name is Fabio Cappabianco and I'm trying to make a CGI in CiaoProlog. The problem is: When the program get some data from a CGI form and try to compare with another one the following error message apears: {ERROR: No handle found for thrown error error(existence_error(procedure,/(user:\=,2)),/(user:\=,2))} Is there a way to transform data from POST mode to a Prolog term that could be compared? I know that by the command prolog_term/1 data from the program can be writen in HTML, but is there some way to do the reverse operation? Thanks a lot! Fabio Cappabianco. ============================================================================== Message: Address: Action: help majordomo(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es Info. on useful commands subscribe ciao-users-request(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es Subscribe to this list unsubscribe ciao-users-request(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es Unsubscribe from this list <whatever> ciao-users(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es Send message to list ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Archived messages: http://www.clip.dia.fi.upm.es/Mail/ciao-users/ -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

3 2

Debian Package Available
by Brent Fulgham 30 May '02

30 May '02

I've been playing with Ciao prolog a bit, and so I build a Debian package for it (so that it would co-exist with the rest of the system in a more pleasing manner.) Interested parties can get it from: http://people.debian.org/~bfulgham/ciao There is a binary i386 build, and the necessary *diff.gz file for building on other architectures. Enjoy! -Brent ============================================================================== Message: Address: Action: help majordomo(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es Info. on useful commands subscribe ciao-users-request(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es Subscribe to this list unsubscribe ciao-users-request(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es Unsubscribe from this list <whatever> ciao-users(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es Send message to list ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Archived messages: http://www.clip.dia.fi.upm.es/Mail/ciao-users/ -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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using trace/1
by Roel Wuyts 29 May '02

29 May '02

Hello, I am wondering how to use the trace/1 predicate. I included the three packages mentioned in the doc, but when I then do: ?- trace( --some styff-- ) I just get that trace/1 is undefined... I guess that I am forgetting some basic thing here (something that has to do with modules, etc), but I am not sure. Any ideas? PS: I am using the ciao shell, not the emacs integration... -- Roel Wuyts Software Composition Group roel.wuyts(a)iam.unibe.ch University of Bern, Switzerland http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~wuyts/ Board Member of the European Smalltalk User Group: www.esug.org ============================================================================== Message: Address: Action: help majordomo(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es Info. on useful commands subscribe ciao-users-request(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es Subscribe to this list unsubscribe ciao-users-request(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es Unsubscribe from this list <whatever> ciao-users(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es Send message to list ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Archived messages: http://www.clip.dia.fi.upm.es/Mail/ciao-users/ -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: forward-chaining/persistence
by Gregory Bourassa 28 May '02

28 May '02

Candide, Regarding notifications, database connections and so on, you might consider this strategy which I have employed successfully to integrate Prolog with various other languages and packages (like databases): 1) Define a little XML message protocol which maps easily between Prolog predicates and any structures or objects on the other side of the interface. "MyJavaObject" with instance variables "name" and "city" would become <MyJavaObject><name>Gregory</name><city>Ottawa</city></MyJavaObject>. On the Prolog side this would map to the fact, myJavaObject(name('Gregory'),city('Ottawa')). 2) Using a message middleware such as CORBA or MQSeries, or even something as simple as http or TCP/IP sockets, communicate with very small, simple programs that insert and fetch from the data store using EJB or JDBC. 3) Notify users using this same XML inter-lingua. If the Prolog you choose does not directly support the middleware you want to use, it is very simple to implement this scheme using the standard in and standard out streams; this way the Prolog program simply responds to the input stream as if to interactive Goals, and makes requests to store or get data via the output stream. Then a very simple helper program in a language with bindings to the chosen middleware simply starts the Prolog program and attaches to its in and out streams -- all the helper program does after that is provide strings from the Middleware to the Prolog and from the Prolog to the Middleware. Regards. Gregory Bourassa On May 28, Candide Kemmler <candide(a)urbanium.tv> wrote: > > > Hi, > > I'm considering a number of options in trying to architect a distributed > system in line with the semantic web's ambitions. > > I haven't yet given a try to ciao prolog, but I would like to know a > number of things before I get into more details. > > First: I have read that prolog systems are generally backward-chaining > systems. I would like to do forward-chaining so I can deal with > notification of particular events to the users. > > Second: The user contributed libraries mention a utility to convert > Prolog to SQL... Does that cover triggers ? :-) that would be too easy, > wouldn't it ? More seriously, what does it cover ? It just sounds like > magic ! > > Finally: what kind of persistence does ciao prolog allow for ? In regard > to XSB for example. I'm concerned about the convenience of writing > triggered code to write things down to a database or an EJB,... Is such > a thing possible ? > > Thanks in advance for taking the time to answer my naive questions, > > Candide Kemmler > ============================================================================== > Message: Address: Action: > help majordomo(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es Info. on useful commands > subscribe ciao-users-request(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es Subscribe to this list > unsubscribe ciao-users-request(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es Unsubscribe from this list > <whatever> ciao-users(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es Send message to list > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Archived messages: <a href='http://www.clip.dia.fi.upm.es/Mail/ciao- users/'>http://www.clip.dia.fi.upm.es/Mail/ciao-users/</a> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ============================================================================== Message: Address: Action: help majordomo(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es Info. on useful commands subscribe ciao-users-request(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es Subscribe to this list unsubscribe ciao-users-request(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es Unsubscribe from this list <whatever> ciao-users(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es Send message to list ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Archived messages: http://www.clip.dia.fi.upm.es/Mail/ciao-users/ -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Error in compiler in 1.8 patch 0
by Manuel Carro 27 May '02

27 May '02

Dear Ciao Prolog users, we have just discovered an unfortunate error in the Prolog compiler which comes with the recently released Ciao Prolog 1.8 patch 0. Certain types of clauses [1] were compiled incorrectly, leading to a wrong failure during their execution. This bug is *not* present in distributions previous to Ciao 1.8. No file in the Ciao Prolog sources was compiled differently to the previous version, and, partially because of that, the bug crept in without us noticing. We sincerely apologize for any problem this may have caused to you. Ciao Prolog 1.8 patch 1 is already available at http://clip.dia.fi.upm.es/Software/Ciao. [1] It is not easy to characterize them, but, for those interested, a clause as p(A, B, C, D) :- C < B, !, E = C, q(A, 0, B, E, D1), D is - D1. would be incorrectly compiled to WAM code by Ciao Prolog 1.8 . -- +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Manuel Carro -- Facultad de Informática -- U. Politécnica de Madrid (UPM) | | Email: mcarro(a)fi.upm.es --- Ph: +34-91336-7455 --- FAX: +34-91336-7412 | |http://lml.ls.fi.upm.es/~boris --- http://clip.dia.fi.upm.es/Software/Ciao| ============================================================================== Message: Address: Action: help majordomo(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es Info. on useful commands subscribe ciao-users-request(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es Subscribe to this list unsubscribe ciao-users-request(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es Unsubscribe from this list <whatever> ciao-users(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es Send message to list ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Archived messages: http://www.clip.dia.fi.upm.es/Mail/ciao-users/ -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Ciao Prolog is very slow in my machine
by Antonio Costa Pereira 23 May '02

23 May '02

Dear Sir. Thank you for your prompt answer. > Just for curiosity, and to see if I am in the right track, how > does GNU Prolog behave? Are the figures you obtain as bad as Ciao > Prolog's? You are right. GnuProlog is almost as slow as Ciao Prolog. > After all, they are different languages, with Mercury > requiring more user effort, such as modes, types, determinism > declarations, etc., which makes translation to C (or assembler) > easier. Again, I am sure you are right. I think that mode and type inference makes Mercury run faster. I never declare modes or types. I always compile with the option "mmc --infer-all myprogram.m". In any case, Mercury infer modes and types. As for determinism, my students and I avoid non-deterministic predicates very carefully. Thus, I am sure that all predicates are deterministic. Question: Is it possible to insert mode declaration in a Ciao-Prolog code? If the answer is yes, I could check how it influences speed. I have made an experience with GNU-Prolog that may help. Dr. Marcus Vinicius, from Ryerson University (http://www.scs.ryerson.ca/~m3santos/) wrote a Prolog to C translator as part of his MSC thesis. I got a copy of this thesis and of the translator. A few years later, Dr. Cedric Carvalho wrote a Prolog to JVM compiler with mode and type inference. One of my students combined the two compilers to generate C code (instead of JVM) for GNU-Prolog. Then, I used gplc to compile and link this code to a GNU-Prolog program. With this off-hand scheme, I was able to compile only very simple programs. However, they proved to be as fast as equivalent programs in Mercury. Is it possible to add an option to Ciao Prolog to generate mode and type inference? Of course, it is possible. I think I should rephrase the question. Do you have plans to add mode and type inference to Ciao-Prolog? > Yes, it is true that we are working on compilation to C. However > the compiler is still on a very preliminary stage, and although > results are good, it is still far from being usable. Would you accept volunteers? I am sending copies of this letter to Dr. Cedric and Dr. Marcus. They know well the kind of programs I write, and they may make suggestions. I am also sure that they would be happy to work as volunteers in your Prolog to C compiler, if you accept volunteers, of course. By the way, I do not want to keep with Mercury because it generates ridiculously large code (ten times larger than Ciao Prolog, or GNU-Prolog). Finally, I am giving up Visual Prolog because it requires type declaration. Eduardo Costa ============================================================================== Message: Address: Action: help majordomo(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es Info. on useful commands subscribe ciao-users-request(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es Subscribe to this list unsubscribe ciao-users-request(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es Unsubscribe from this list <whatever> ciao-users(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es Send message to list ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Archived messages: http://www.clip.dia.fi.upm.es/Mail/ciao-users/ -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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RE: Mercury users
by Dupont, Michael 23 May '02

23 May '02

1 0

RE: Mercury users
by Dupont, Michael 23 May '02

23 May '02

Antonio, Have you tried recompiling with www.cygwin.com? Also shared libs are called DLLS in windows. mike >> I received a couple of mails (off list) from Mercury users complaining >> about my affirmation that Mercury generates code ridiculously >> large. Sorry for that. I think I should not have expressed myself with >> these words. I use Mercury a lot and I wouldn't do it if I did not >> think that it is a good language. It happens that I was forced to >> migrate to Windows, and Mercury is not as well supported in Windows as >> in Linux. I think that it has something with Windows not having >> shared libraries. >> >> >> Antonio Eduardo Costa

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Mercury users
by Antonio Costa Pereira 23 May '02

23 May '02

I received a couple of mails (off list) from Mercury users complaining about my affirmation that Mercury generates code ridiculously large. Sorry for that. I think I should not have expressed myself with these words. I use Mercury a lot and I wouldn't do it if I did not think that it is a good language. It happens that I was forced to migrate to Windows, and Mercury is not as well supported in Windows as in Linux. I think that it has something with Windows not having shared libraries. Antonio Eduardo Costa ============================================================================== Message: Address: Action: help majordomo(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es Info. on useful commands subscribe ciao-users-request(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es Subscribe to this list unsubscribe ciao-users-request(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es Unsubscribe from this list <whatever> ciao-users(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es Send message to list ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Archived messages: http://www.clip.dia.fi.upm.es/Mail/ciao-users/ -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Fwd: {RTCProd#379-418}Install very well on macos X 10.2
by Thomas De Contes 22 May '02

22 May '02

Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_k4sRKBPA9rIGOLGYCgsgMw)" --Boundary_(ID_k4sRKBPA9rIGOLGYCgsgMw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable hello i don't speak english currently, and i have probably missed something in this message can someone explain me which link there is between ciao and microsoft please ? D=E9but du message r=E9exp=E9di=E9 : > De : "info" <info(a)microsoft.com> > Date : Mer 22 mai 2002 01:59:21 Europe/Paris > =C0 : "Thomas De=A0Contes <d.l.deContes(a)ifrance.com> > Objet : RE:{RTCProd#379-418}Install very well on macos X 10.2 > R=E9pondre =E0 : "info" <info(a)microsoft.com> > Content-Type: multipart/alternative;=20 > boundary=3D"----_NextPart_361382340_boundary" > X-Mailer: Talisma Mail Version 4.4 > > Hello, > > Thank you for contacting Microsoft. > > I am glad to know that you have contacted the manufacturer of Ciao. As > mentioned in the earlier mail, I feel sorry=A0Ciao which is not a > Microsoft product because I may be unable to assist you with this. > Since our Support Professionals are not trained to troubleshoot issues > with Ciao for Macintosh, we feel that your question would be best > addressed by Ciao for Macintosh `s technical support. > > However, if you would like assistance with any Microsoft product, > please feel free to contact us. > Thank You, > > Sara > Microsoft Online Customer Support Representative. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: =A0=A0Thomas De=A0Contes=A0 (d.l.deContes(a)iFrance.com) > Date: =A0=A0Tuesday, May 21, 2002=A0 05:14 AM > To: =A0=A0info (info(a)microsoft.com) > Subject: =A0Re: Install very well on macos X 10.2 > > > i have wrote to ciao-users(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es > why do you tell me that you are sorry because ciao is not a microsoft > product ? > > Le mardi 21 mai 2002, =E0 10:08 , info a =E9crit : > > > Hello, > > > > Thank you for contacting Microsoft Web Support. > > > > I understand that you would like assistance with installing Ciao on > > your Macintosh operating system. I would like to inform you that we > > only support Microsoft products. I would like to inform you that we are > > available to assist customers with Web site navigation, general > > non-technical product information, and information regarding our > > product support structure. > > > > This product is not a Microsoft product , so I may be unable to assist > > you with this. Since our Support Professionals are not trained to > > troubleshoot issues with Ciao for Macintosh, we feel that your question > > would be best addressed by Ciao for Macintosh `s technical support. > > > > If after working with Ciao for Macintosh, they determine that the issue > > is with a Microsoft product , feel free to contact us again. At this > > point, however, we believe that your issue would be best addressed by > > support specialists trained on Ciao for Macintosh. > > > > It has been a pleasure assisting you, and I hope you are able to have > > this issue resolved as soon as possible. > > > > Thank you, > > > > Tina > > Microsoft Online Customer Representative > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: =A0=A0Thomas De Contes =A0(d.l.deContes(a)iFrance.com) > > Date: =A0=A0Monday, May 20, 2002 =A004:26 AM > > To: =A0=A0ciao-users(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es (ciao-users(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es) > > Subject: =A0Re: Install very well on macos X 10.2 > > > > > > Le dimanche 19 mai 2002, =E0 01:59 , David Strainchamps a =E9crit : > > > >> I install all the version of ciao very well on macos x. > >> I have macos X 10.1 with dev tools 10.1 > > > > i have devtools of september 2001 > > i don't know its number version, but maybe it's too old > > luckly, i just get the april 2002 version on a cd, with a friend who > > have an hot connexion, then i'll update it at once and retry > > > >=20 > = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > Message: =A0=A0=A0=A0Address: =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Action: > > help =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0majordomo(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es = =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Info. on useful > > commands > > subscribe =A0=A0=A0ciao-users-request(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es =A0Subscribe = to this > > list > > unsubscribe =A0ciao-users-request(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es =A0Unsubscribe = from > > this list > > <whatever> =A0=A0ciao-users(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0Send message to=20 > list > >=20 > = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- > > Archived messages: http://www.clip.dia.fi.upm.es/Mail/ciao-users/ > >=20 > = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- > =A0 > =A0 --Boundary_(ID_k4sRKBPA9rIGOLGYCgsgMw) Content-type: text/enriched; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable hello i don't speak english currently, and i have probably missed something in this message =85 can someone explain me which link there is between ciao and microsoft please ? D=E9but du message r=E9exp=E9di=E9 : <excerpt><bold>De : </bold>"info" <<info(a)microsoft.com> <bold>Date : </bold>Mer 22 mai 2002 01:59:21 Europe/Paris <bold>=C0 : </bold>"Thomas De=A0Contes <<d.l.deContes(a)ifrance.com> <bold>Objet : </bold>RE:{RTCProd#379-418}Install very well on macos X 10.2 <bold>R=E9pondre =E0 : </bold>"info" <<info(a)microsoft.com> <bold>Content-Type: </bold>multipart/alternative; boundary=3D"----_NextPart_361382340_boundary" <bold>X-Mailer: </bold>Talisma Mail Version 4.4 Hello, =A0 Thank you for contacting Microsoft. =A0 I am glad to know that you have contacted the manufacturer of Ciao. As mentioned in the earlier mail, I feel sorry=A0Ciao which is not a Microsoft product because I may be unable to assist you with this. Since our Support Professionals are not trained to troubleshoot issues with Ciao for Macintosh, we feel that your question would be best addressed by Ciao for Macintosh `s technical support. =A0 However, if you would like assistance with any Microsoft product, please feel free to contact us. Thank You, =A0 Sara Microsoft Online Customer Support Representative. =A0 =A0 -----Original Message----- From: =A0=A0Thomas De=A0Contes=A0 = (<underline><color><param>1999,1999,FFFF</param>d.l.deContes(a)iFrance.com</= color></underline>) Date: =A0=A0Tuesday, May 21, 2002=A0 05:14 AM To: =A0=A0info = (<underline><color><param>1999,1999,FFFF</param>info(a)microsoft.com</color>= </underline>) Subject: =A0Re: Install very well on macos X 10.2 =A0 i have wrote to = <underline><color><param>1999,1999,FFFF</param>ciao-users(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.= es</color></underline> why do you tell me that you are sorry because ciao is not a microsoft product ? =A0 Le mardi 21 mai 2002, =E0 10:08 , info a =E9crit : =A0 > Hello, > > Thank you for contacting Microsoft Web Support. > > I understand that you would like assistance with installing Ciao on > your Macintosh operating system. =A0I would like to inform you that we > only support Microsoft products. I would like to inform you that we are > available to assist customers with Web site navigation, general > non-technical product information, and information regarding our > product support structure. > > This product is not a Microsoft product , so I may be unable to assist > you with this. Since our Support Professionals are not trained to > troubleshoot issues with Ciao for Macintosh, we feel that your question > would be best addressed by Ciao for Macintosh `s technical support. > > If after working with Ciao for Macintosh, they determine that the issue > is with a Microsoft product , feel free to contact us again. At this > point, however, we believe that your issue would be best addressed by > support specialists trained on Ciao for Macintosh. > > It has been a pleasure assisting you, and I hope you are able to have > this issue resolved as soon as possible. > > Thank you, > > Tina > Microsoft Online Customer Representative > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: =A0=A0Thomas De Contes = =A0<underline><color><param>1999,1999,FFFF</param>(d.l.deContes(a)iFrance.co= m)</color></underline> > Date: =A0=A0Monday, May 20, 2002 =A004:26 AM > To: = =A0=A0<underline><color><param>1999,1999,FFFF</param>ciao-users(a)clip.dia.f= i.upm.es</color></underline> = <underline><color><param>1999,1999,FFFF</param>(ciao-users(a)clip.dia.fi.upm= .es)</color></underline> > Subject: =A0Re: Install very well on macos X 10.2 > > > Le dimanche 19 mai 2002, =E0 01:59 , David Strainchamps a =E9crit : > >> I install all the version of ciao very well on macos x. >> I have macos X 10.1 with dev tools 10.1 > > i have devtools of september 2001 > i don't know its number version, but maybe it's too old > luckly, i just get the april 2002 version on a cd, with a friend who > have an hot connexion, then i'll update it at once and retry > > = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Message: =A0=A0=A0=A0Address: =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Action: > help = =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0<underline><color><param>1999,1999,FFFF</param>maj= ordomo(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es</color></underline> =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Info. on useful > commands > subscribe = =A0=A0=A0<underline><color><param>1999,1999,FFFF</param>ciao-users-request= @clip.dia.fi.upm.es</color></underline> =A0Subscribe to this > list > unsubscribe = =A0<underline><color><param>1999,1999,FFFF</param>ciao-users-request(a)clip.= dia.fi.upm.es</color></underline> =A0Unsubscribe from > this list > <<whatever> = =A0=A0<underline><color><param>1999,1999,FFFF</param>ciao-users(a)clip.dia.f= i.upm.es</color></underline> =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Send message to list > = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- > Archived messages: = <underline><color><param>1999,1999,FFFF</param>http://www.clip.dia.fi.upm.= es/Mail/ciao-users/</color></underline> > = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- =A0 =A0 </excerpt>= --Boundary_(ID_k4sRKBPA9rIGOLGYCgsgMw)-- ============================================================================== Message: Address: Action: help majordomo(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es Info. on useful commands subscribe ciao-users-request(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es Subscribe to this list unsubscribe ciao-users-request(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es Unsubscribe from this list <whatever> ciao-users(a)clip.dia.fi.upm.es Send message to list ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Archived messages: http://www.clip.dia.fi.upm.es/Mail/ciao-users/ -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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